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	<title>
	Comments on: How A Reformed Media Manipulator Uses The Web To Generate Sales	</title>
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	<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/</link>
	<description>Tips for Running a Successful, Profitable Website</description>
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		<title>
		By: Sam Ford		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-21300</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam Ford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-21300</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This discussion has been fascinating and, as the comments above show (if they are indeed real), there&#039;s a lot of passion on the subject. I think part of this underscores the difference between ROI and &quot;return on investment.&quot; So many companies measure success by a number they call ROI, and many of the more automated or faked aspects Ryan talks about here generate what appears to be success based on &quot;ROI&quot; statistics. But is generating short-term mentions actually contributing anything to the actual ROI of a business, other than getting people talking for a moment? Does getting fake views of a video equate to success? Or having all the family and friends of the publicity team for a company or client &quot;like&quot; a page? Now, the company has the families of their PR team, or their agency, &quot;engaged&quot; with their page, but what good does that even do in the short-term? (And, in actuality, they aren&#039;t even engaged in the page now; they just clicked a button because a friend begged them to.) 

I&#039;ve been working with Henry Jenkins, Joshua Green, and a host of others for the past few years on the distinction between spreadable media and &quot;viral media&quot; (for a book that comes out next January). &quot;Viral media&quot; describes getting people to promote something without even meaning to. A Facebook app that auto-generates a message every time you read something, or buy a pig, etc. An email service that sends a little marketing line along with every message you send. Or spam. Meanwhile, spreadable media refers to content that the audience might decide to share, for their own purposes. 

But part of thinking about, from the audience&#039;s shoes, what might actually be useful from the company requires a lot of work, as you suggest, Ryan. And it isn&#039;t as easy to measure as taking a headcount...because if you just need some numbers, Ryan points out how easy it is to make that happen. This can be done to create the illusion of success to higher-ups. Or this could even get legitimate views, but not in ways that actually build any kind of longer-term relationship or do either the company or the audience any real good....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion has been fascinating and, as the comments above show (if they are indeed real), there&#8217;s a lot of passion on the subject. I think part of this underscores the difference between ROI and &#8220;return on investment.&#8221; So many companies measure success by a number they call ROI, and many of the more automated or faked aspects Ryan talks about here generate what appears to be success based on &#8220;ROI&#8221; statistics. But is generating short-term mentions actually contributing anything to the actual ROI of a business, other than getting people talking for a moment? Does getting fake views of a video equate to success? Or having all the family and friends of the publicity team for a company or client &#8220;like&#8221; a page? Now, the company has the families of their PR team, or their agency, &#8220;engaged&#8221; with their page, but what good does that even do in the short-term? (And, in actuality, they aren&#8217;t even engaged in the page now; they just clicked a button because a friend begged them to.) </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been working with Henry Jenkins, Joshua Green, and a host of others for the past few years on the distinction between spreadable media and &#8220;viral media&#8221; (for a book that comes out next January). &#8220;Viral media&#8221; describes getting people to promote something without even meaning to. A Facebook app that auto-generates a message every time you read something, or buy a pig, etc. An email service that sends a little marketing line along with every message you send. Or spam. Meanwhile, spreadable media refers to content that the audience might decide to share, for their own purposes. </p>
<p>But part of thinking about, from the audience&#8217;s shoes, what might actually be useful from the company requires a lot of work, as you suggest, Ryan. And it isn&#8217;t as easy to measure as taking a headcount&#8230;because if you just need some numbers, Ryan points out how easy it is to make that happen. This can be done to create the illusion of success to higher-ups. Or this could even get legitimate views, but not in ways that actually build any kind of longer-term relationship or do either the company or the audience any real good&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: B.C.Tietjens		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-21040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[B.C.Tietjens]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-21040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a long time blogger myself, I read Ryan&#039;s post here and the comments that followed it. I have to say I find myself wondering how many of these &#039;comments&#039; are real and how many are faked.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a long time blogger myself, I read Ryan&#8217;s post here and the comments that followed it. I have to say I find myself wondering how many of these &#8216;comments&#8217; are real and how many are faked.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Louis Dallara		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20980</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louis Dallara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20980</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hey; Awesome dude! I love you man!!!
Thanks for showing how it all works...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey; Awesome dude! I love you man!!!<br />
Thanks for showing how it all works&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rob Leonardo		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20974</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob Leonardo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 13:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20974</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like the &quot;build permission assets&quot; part.  I&#039;m beginning to get it!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the &#8220;build permission assets&#8221; part.  I&#8217;m beginning to get it!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Allan Scott		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20960</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Allan Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20960</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a mystery writer trying to discover what works for real, I find this both interesting and a bit disturbing.  I suspect most folks would probably never think of this.  That said, &quot;honest&quot; is NOT a synonym for &quot;naive.&quot;  You&#039;re obviously a very bright guy.  Congratulations on deciding to help out and putting all that power and ability to more constructive use.  On that premise, I&#039;m going to buy the book.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a mystery writer trying to discover what works for real, I find this both interesting and a bit disturbing.  I suspect most folks would probably never think of this.  That said, &#8220;honest&#8221; is NOT a synonym for &#8220;naive.&#8221;  You&#8217;re obviously a very bright guy.  Congratulations on deciding to help out and putting all that power and ability to more constructive use.  On that premise, I&#8217;m going to buy the book.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ny		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 21:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad I saw this before I purchased a &quot;promotion&quot; gig over a fiverr. I think I&#039;ll also use the formula O + C = mT (Outrage + Controversy = massive Traffic).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad I saw this before I purchased a &#8220;promotion&#8221; gig over a fiverr. I think I&#8217;ll also use the formula O + C = mT (Outrage + Controversy = massive Traffic).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steven		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20938</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20938</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20894&quot;&gt;Bruce&lt;/a&gt;.

There is no such thing as bad publicity.

This statement definitely applies to this situation. Obviously, this guy was/is a jerk, but he definitely knows how to make a splash (and has the connections to do so as well).

Whether it is bad or good, people are gonna be hearing about Ryan Holiday.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20894">Bruce</a>.</p>
<p>There is no such thing as bad publicity.</p>
<p>This statement definitely applies to this situation. Obviously, this guy was/is a jerk, but he definitely knows how to make a splash (and has the connections to do so as well).</p>
<p>Whether it is bad or good, people are gonna be hearing about Ryan Holiday.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steven		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20937</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20937</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20861&quot;&gt;deborah&lt;/a&gt;.

negative much?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20861">deborah</a>.</p>
<p>negative much?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Raj		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20918</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20918</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I strongly oppose the idea of manipulating and multi-folding the readership and believe in original where people will truly follow things which we say.. indeed it is the real thing that can do magic in future...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly oppose the idea of manipulating and multi-folding the readership and believe in original where people will truly follow things which we say.. indeed it is the real thing that can do magic in future&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Annie		</title>
		<link>https://diythemes.com/thesis/trust-me-im-lying/#comment-20904</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Annie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 22:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://diythemes.com/thesis/?p=4852#comment-20904</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do think Ryan is right in saying that old black hat tactics don&#039;t pay off *as* well as they might have a few years ago. But I still see tons of people doing it successfully -- in part because it&#039;s a win-win situation. A client gets a mention because of a fabricated scandal, and a website wins pageviews for a story on it. I think many bloggers and editors KNOW when something smells off, but they don&#039;t have the fact-checking resources; conversely, they may publish with the disclaimer of something being &quot;alleged,&quot; which lets them off the hook while the pageviews roll in.
 
Also, Ryan, you&#039;re clearly a smart guy, but Dov Charney and Tucker Max are some of the most sexist dudes around. I&#039;m curious to know if &quot;reform&quot; extends to who you take on as clients, too. Because from my standpoint, getting great press about men who exploit women isn&#039;t a winning game.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think Ryan is right in saying that old black hat tactics don&#8217;t pay off *as* well as they might have a few years ago. But I still see tons of people doing it successfully &#8212; in part because it&#8217;s a win-win situation. A client gets a mention because of a fabricated scandal, and a website wins pageviews for a story on it. I think many bloggers and editors KNOW when something smells off, but they don&#8217;t have the fact-checking resources; conversely, they may publish with the disclaimer of something being &#8220;alleged,&#8221; which lets them off the hook while the pageviews roll in.</p>
<p>Also, Ryan, you&#8217;re clearly a smart guy, but Dov Charney and Tucker Max are some of the most sexist dudes around. I&#8217;m curious to know if &#8220;reform&#8221; extends to who you take on as clients, too. Because from my standpoint, getting great press about men who exploit women isn&#8217;t a winning game.</p>
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